Tesla launches home, business and utility battery storage range | RenewEconomy

Tesla launches home, business and utility battery storage range

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Tesla says if customers can look after their own energy requirements, that will help wean the world off fossil fuels. Its new offerings include a 10kWh home battery storage for $US3,500. It will be offered in Australia early next year, and Tesla has teamed up with Reposit Power to allow households to use batteries to trade in NEM.

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Electric vehicle manufacturer Tesla has unveiled its long awaited battery storage offerings, including a “Powerwall” home battery storage systems that will sell for $US3,000 for a 7kWh system. It will offered in Australia early next year.

The battery product range – which extends to commercial and utility-scale storage systems, was launched by Tesla founder Elon Musk on Thursday (Friday afternoon Australia time) in the company’s California design studio.

Musk said it was a crucial step in revolutionising the world’s energy system, and phasing out fossil fuels. Others suggested it was a watershed for the global energy industry.

“What if we could move the electricity grid off of fossil fuels and towards renewable energy sources?” Musk said in a prepared statement at the launch of Tesla Energy.

“Once we’re able to rely on renewable energy sources for our power consumption, the top 50% of the dirtiest power generation resources could retire early. We would have a cleaner, smaller, and more resilient energy grid.”

neometals march

Musk said that Tesla is not just an automotive company, it’s an “energy innovation company.” And it will help homes, business, and utilities to “store sustainable and renewable energy to manage power demand, provide backup power and increase grid resilience.” It would help some leave the grid altogether.

Musk says that 160 million of the Tesla power packs – its commercial scale version – could transition the US to 100 per cent renewable energy, mostly solar. About 900 million could transition the world, and 2 billion could do it, including transport and heating.

“That may seem like an insane number … but it is not. The number of cars and trucks we have on the road is 2 billion,” he said.

“This is within the power of humanity to do. It is not impossible. It is something we can do,” he said. “And that is the future we need to have.”

The Tesla announcement – along with similar moves by solar companies and software giants teaming up with battery storage and smart technology companies – represents another major threat to incumbent utilities.

Perhaps not entirely coincidentally, Australian utility giant AGL Energy on Friday launched its own battery storage initiative. Sungevity meanwhile said it would team up with Sonnenbatterie to bring $10,000 systems to consumers.

The centrepiece of the Tesla product range is the Tesla Powerwall – a rechargeable lithium-ion battery that Musk says it designed to store energy at a residential level for load shifting, backup power and self-consumption of solar power generation.

tesla powerwallIt will consist of a lithium-ion battery pack, liquid thermal control system and software that receives dispatch commands from a solar inverter. It can be mounted on the wall and is integrated with the local grid.

Musk says the battery can be used for load shifting, increasing self-consumption of solar power generation, and for back-up power in the event of an outage.


Musk says the Tesla offering was the “missing piece’ in a technology revolution.

“The problem with existing batteries suck,” he said at the launch. “They are expensive and unreliable, stinky, ugly, bad in every way.”

The Powerwall is available in 10kWh, if wanted for backup applications, or 7kWh if optimised for daily use applications. Tesla says it will sell these batteries to installers for $US3,500 for 10kWh and $US3,000 for the 7kWh. This excludes the price of inverters and installation.

The range will be offered within a few months – and scale up when the Gigafactory is operating – and in Australia in early 2016, along the same pricing guidelines, give it or take a few dollars for foreign exchange.

And Tesla has also announced it will team up with Canberra-based Reposit Power, which is rolling out a series of trials enabling households with solar and storage to trade energy during the day.

Reposit Power says its technology will be integrated with the Tesla battery storage unit. Director Dean Spaccavento said the company has been overwhelmed with interest within Australian and internationally since it launched a pilot of its GridCredits technology late last year.

“We are excited to be working with Tesla, the pioneer of electric cars, who today announced they will be producing batteries for homes. Our world first GridCredits technology intelligently decides on behalf of households throughout the day whether to store energy in the battery or sell it back to the grid at a profit.”

Analysts say the Tesla pricing is definitely at the bottom of the range of battery technology costs, and will likely hasten the transition to battery storage – already earmarked by retailers, generators, networks, regulators and analysts alike as the “next big thing” in energy markets, and likely to have even more of an impact than the solar boom of the past five years.

Tesla’s lithium ion battery costs are already at the low end of the range, and technology costs are likely to fall further once the so-called Giga-factory, the $5 billion production line that will be the biggest of its kind in the world, begins production.

Powerwall specs:

  • Mounting: Wall Mounted Indoor/Outdoor
  • Inverter: Pairs with growing list of inverters
  • Energy: 7kWh or 10kWh
  • Continuous Power: 2kW
  • Peak Power: 3kW
  • Round Trip Efficiency: >92%
  • Operating Temperature Range: -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F)
  • Warranty: 10 or 20 years
  • Dimensions: H: 1300mm W: 860mm D:180mm

In the household market, Tesla is partnering with the likes of inverter manufacturer Solar Edge and other californian installers.

TreeHouse, a sustainable home improvement store, says is collaborating with Tesla to sell the Powerwall home battery. “For the first time, running your home on a battery will be affordable and easy,” says TreeHouse co-founder and president Jason Ballard.

“I think in the near future, having a battery in your home will be as normal as having a water heater or a dishwasher. This just takes us one step closer to being able to power homes completely without the use of fossil fuels.”

In the business sector, Tesla says it is launching pilot programs with retail chain Target, as well as Amazon, which will be trialling a 4.8MWh program for its data centres in northern California.  “Batteries are important for both data centre reliability and as enablers for the efficient application of renewable power,” the company said.

Tesla is also targeting the utility scale market, with 100kWh battery blocks can be grouped to scale from 500kWh to more than 10MWh. It says these systems are capable of 2hr or 4hr continuous net discharge power using grid tied bi-directional inverters.

These systems are designed to firm up renewable generation, act as on-demand distributed power generation, act as a buffer while the power output from a large generation source is ramping up or down, delivering power instantly to smoothly transition output to the required level, improving power quality, defer costly infrastructure upgrades, and manage peak demand.

And it’s looking at micro-grids, which many tip will become typical in major cities, and towns, rather than relying on centralised power stations and the hub and spoke model of networks. “(This) will change the way we build our cities forever,” said Susan Kennedy, the head of Advanced Microgrid Solutions.

Tesla says it is partnering with micro grid specialist OnCor, and with grid operator Southern California Edison,  with whom it will look to combine solar, household storage, and electric vehicles, as well as trialling grid based solutions, and AES Systems.

Not everyone is impressed. Least of all Tesla’s rivals.  Rival battery storage developer Aleva is doubtful about Tesla’s ability to crack the utility scale market, while Imergy, a developer of flow batteries, says there will be plenty of competition.

“The energy market is a $20 Billion market with a broad spectrum of storage requirements,” Imergy CEO Bill Watkins said.There are a number of energy storage technologies available to address those specific market requirements and more than enough opportunity for a number of these technologies – and the companies developing them – to succeed.”

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  1. Jacob 5 years ago

    43C is not good enough for AUS, Dubai, India.

    • Neil_Copeland 5 years ago

      Considering they are to be made in the Nevada desert. Even the place they are made would not be suitable!

      • john 5 years ago

        Did you notice the roof of the building ?
        Those are PV panels they make power which powers the place so is cool inside capisce.
        Sorry for being rude.

      • Jacob 5 years ago

        Well there should be 2 versions. 1) for markets where it does not snow at all. 2) for markets where it does not get above 40C at all.

    • Nick Thiwerspoon 5 years ago

      They’ll have to be indoors, here.

    • Michael Finn (Mike) 5 years ago

      liquid thermal control system

  2. RobS 5 years ago

    That pricing is unbelievable and a game changer, consider that the current home storage options cost over $31,000 for less capacity, were looking at a 90% cost cut overnight http://store.energymatters.com.au/bpt-s5h-6-6

    • Finn Peacock 5 years ago

      It is super cheap – but not 90% cheaper – it is only the battery (+failsafe enclosure) you’ll still need a control system and battery inverter and installation

      • RobS 5 years ago

        The Bosch system I linked is pre installation too and many solar grid feed inverters are now being built with in built battery control systems for only 1-2,000 more than a standard grid fed inverter so I think we are looking at ~$35,000 coming down to ~$5,000

      • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

        It will still take some time for full system costs to go very low – while there are some ‘very cheap’ battery-inverters out there – I wouldn’t touch some with a barge-pole myself.
        A decent inverter system with full safety and control would add a minimum of $7k or more.

        • juxx0r 5 years ago

          Why do you keep going on about control?

          Tesla has control built in, that’s their thing, it’s what they do.

          All you need is an off grid inverter and if someone is paying $7k for that they’re off their head.

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            If you want DIY cheapo go-bang inverter, then that is what is cheap. Apart from that, an off-grid inverter by itself (one that actually runs appliances) is a lot more expensive than the average grid-only inverter! Then there is the cost of fittings that meet standards, (including safety), and programming control of the system, if you want the system to actually decide when battery charge/discharge takes place, in relation to whatever is exported. A Tesla battery-pack AFAIK, does not do this. It does have (like all Lithium systems) a Battery-Management-System (BMS) this stops the Lithium going bang and catching fire, but it does not prevent a user from setting regular over-discharge. There are a number of things in the boxes on the wall in that picture, and I can tell you that they are more expensive than the minimum cost example I gave!

          • john 5 years ago

            Mate are you working for a dud company ?
            costs are way above as u give them of industry standard

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            What size are you talking about? What parts are you talking about?
            I’m talking about something that runs a number of your appliances, charges and discharges your batteries, runs in a power-cut, and manages import/export, etc. A small inverter would be 3.5kW continuous.

          • john 5 years ago

            You are saying at least $7k for a control system

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Not just control, all of the things I mentioned before. In comparison, there will become available all-in-one ‘PV export-manager’ grid inverters, and all they will do is control charge and discharge of the batteries from the array and into the grid. They will not give you any of the other things I mentioned, and they may well come down in price to be only somewhat more costly than a straight grid-inverter.

          • john 5 years ago

            you an I know that what is needed is a input output controller and we both know the system will have the best ISO systems in place

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            I/O controller is just one component.

          • Russell Yann 5 years ago

            http://www.balqon.com/energy-storage/ Tesla are not the only ones in this market. High quality low cost battery solutions are gaining momentum

          • RobS 5 years ago

            3.6kw continuous for $3,800 retail and these are very low volume products that enjoy very little economy of scale..yet http://store.energymatters.com.au/ls3548

          • john 5 years ago

            ok I know the site

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Thats just a stand-alone inverter! None of the other things required. Can’t export, can’t charge, can’t talk to AC or DC devices, etc. And last time I looked can’t be installed outside.

          • RobS 5 years ago

            You really are overestimating the gear needed to do this. Systems that integrate a generator, reneewable generators and batteries exist on every yacht around the world, all you need is a charger/inverter and they are really not that expensive.

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            The inexpensive ones aren’t big, either – this will limit your import/export. ‘Typical’ yachts do not have 5kW PV, nor do they have same size and array of domestic appliances, nor do they need export/import control.

          • Pedro 5 years ago

            I think Chris has a point. An off grid system for a boat is a much cheaper system and is doing a whole lot less. Not really managing TOU tariffs, grid management.

            For a really effect grid interactive system there is a fair bit of switch board work that needs to be done and programming.

            Agreed that you can do it much cheaper, but the owner really needs to understand the gear and limitations for it too work reliably and well. Those types of systems are just not fit for the mass market.

            The question I have is Tesla able to solve those problems and deliver a battery back up system that is easy to install and just works without the need for expert management.

          • RobS 5 years ago

            The control systems aren’t ready for the mass market on grid applications because until now storage costs have not made mass market on grid applications cost effective and therefore there had been no demand. Now that costs have fallen so dramatically systems for that application will be developed and mass marketed. The software to control the timing of grid feeding and grid drawing is pretty simple software, the switching gear to initiate and cease grid feeding exists in every solar grid feed inverter already.

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Its the right track, but not that simple. Things like there is an increased rate of switching required, and typical inverter relays are not up to it, nor would you want them to be. This next generation needs ‘soft’ control built into the electronics to ramp the export up and down.

          • RobS 5 years ago

            You’re really over complicating it, increased rate of switching? why? In the case of time of use billing it only needs to switch twice a day, to charge during the off peak period and to discharge during the peak period. In the case of solar arbitrage it’s a fairly simple switching relay too, it simply charges the battery when it detects excess charge from the panels than the property demands and discharges the battery when the panel output is lower than household demand. Big yachts have such switching systems that seamlessly swap between shore power, generator power and house battery banks and even marinised and in very low volume production the control and switching systems to enable this only cost a few thousand for capacity equal to or greater than the power demands of most homes.

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Ok, I think we are talking about different things. For a system that does not have to supply power in a cut, the smart control would logically be in a DC-DC converter between the inverter and battery (say, with the battery box having the array input). A purpose-built inverter would integrate it – effectively having two input channels, one for the array, and one for the battery. And of course a bi-directional sensor on the mains to the street (could be an additional ‘private smart meter’ – already being offered).
            For power in a cut, the inverter has another way of integrating it, but it needs the export ramping to use the grid inverter in a cut.
            Moment by moment monitoring of export and ramping charger up and down accordingly yields most efficiency.
            It will come down in price ultimately, and there may well be some “halfway-house” systems offered as fully ‘smart’ systems. Beware.

          • juxx0r 5 years ago

            Can you perhaps tell us which inverter you might be referring to that does 450V DC battery charging?

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Exactly! That’s something non-standard (and highly dangerous). You would need the pack to be 48V to be compatible with industry standard equipment.

          • juxx0r 5 years ago

            So how do we know it’ll cost $7k?

            And why would it cost $7k if it didn’t need an integrated DC bus?

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Well, we don’t precisely! I gave a figure for typical kit we would install, making some assumptions such as a voltage-compatible option is available. ‘Integrated DC bus’ could mean different things. As soon as there is a battery-bank, some sort of DC ‘bus’ interconnection system is required, to get power into and out of the battery. There is no doubt that ‘systems’ fully integrated into one box -*that are reliable*- will become available, and the cost will be less than my present estimates. But at the moment, it is not a one-box solution, and the equipment I would trust comes with a higher price-tag and installation costs.
            (It’s interesting the Tesla box in the picture above is paired with a likely 6kW 48V inverter)

          • juxx0r 5 years ago

            My guess is, since we are all guessing, Is that you wire the solar to the power wall through an integrated DC/DC converter for battery charging. The output comes from the other side of the DC/DC converter, i.e. the battery side, and this goes straight into an Inverter that does not posses it’s own DC bus but is capable of drawing from a 350-450V DC source. I would suggest that this inverter, grid connected or otherwise, would start at $1000 for the 2kW jobbie and go up from there.

            I find it highly unlikely that a company such as tesla would sell you a box that required a box of sparks twice the price just to run it. Everyone knows that battery storage is price sensitive, particularly tesla. I suggest this is why they’ve gone with a 350-450V output to cut out the middle man so to speak and help cut down the cost.

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            True, it could be anybody’s guess. I’m guessing the pack is pretty basic since it is not being hyped as having any extra part over any other system. So if it wasn’t 48V natively, it would make sense to have a dedicated high voltage charger – so far, special to only Tesla. Which implies that it is a an MPPT charge controller. So now the inverter will have to draw direct from the battery pack as though it was an array. So far ok, but no mention of where the control is – perhaps as you say, built into the charge controller – but it has to know what to turn off to limit export – so it needs multi-level control of the external inverter – very few inverters have this. So compatibility is an issue, and it certainly won’t run anything in a power cut.
            The picture shown in the article is definitely not this!
            I guess we will have to await for further releases 😉

        • john 5 years ago

          I find you $7000 figure extremely hard to understand did you get quote by some company that does want to make about $5500 profit or what?
          At $1500 that is huge price

          • nakedChimp 5 years ago

            Chris is quoting prices from known brands (*) that are niche at the moment.. he can’t (yet) think of this going main stream and get to 25% of the current prices..

            *) think SMA or Selctronics there and let the quote come from an off-grid installer, then you get those prices called.

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            If you dont want power in a power-cut, and want to just arbitrage/offset import/export, then yes, the inverter that does that will tend to ultimately be priced just on the high side of existing grid-only inverters. But right now, no-one has come-forward to say they have something that matches. I am aware of some that may fit the requirement, but they are manufactured by the ‘usual suspects’ in China, and I’d watch for warranty problems, whilst wishing them the very best.

        • RobS 5 years ago

          The inverter needed for this is identical to a grid feed solar inverter, a 2-3kw grid feed inverter is highly mature technology and runs $1,500-$2,000, $7,000 is absurd.

          • john 5 years ago

            I agree

          • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

            Plain no! Do you want to run appliances directly? If you don’t, and neither care for power in a power-cut, then something a bit more expensive than a straight grid-inverter may be closer to the mark. Remember, it needs (at least) an integrated battery-charger.

            I’m talking about something that runs a number of your appliances, charges and discharges your batteries, and manages import/export, etc.

    • Nathan Lim 5 years ago

      On a per kw basis, the battery is $350. Inverter $185. Installation $250. All up $785 per kw. I assume the $350 includes the power management systems. Assuming electricity at $0.24 per kwh, this is a payback of 9 years (785/0.24/365) for the system. Anyone disagree?

      • RobS 5 years ago

        Where have the 185 and 250 numbers come from? 250/kwh or $2,500 total for installation seems very steep to me, remember this is just a wall box by the meter, I paid less than that for installation of solar panels on my 2nd story 40 degree pitch roof.

        • Nathan Lim 5 years ago

          Bloomberg list the spot price for a 10kw string inverter at $0.185 per watt. The $250 includes the equipment to grid connect the device plus the tradesman plus a bit for contingency.

          • RobS 5 years ago

            0.185/watt for the inverter is about right, although keep in mind many people will be sharing that cost with a grid interactive solar inverter with battery back up capability, but I think you are massively overestimating the installation cost, as I said my 3kw rooftop solar array including the grid feed inverter and high roof access equipment took 3 guys 6 hours to install and cost me 2,000 for installation. I would expect this device which simply wall mounts by the inverter and meter box to cost more like $50/Kwh to install.

          • Nathan Lim 5 years ago

            Thanks. At $50/kw, that puts the whole thing installed at $585. That is starting to get it the point where it gets interesting for most people.

          • RobS 5 years ago

            It’s just a guess but I would expect installation for this box, particularly if being done in conjunction with a new or upgraded home solar system to be somewhere between $500 and $1,000, time will tell.

          • john 5 years ago

            It should cost about $50 to install 4 connections and 2 plugs in the wall

        • WR 5 years ago

          According to Musk, installation of the Powerwall is expected to take 2 qualified installers 30-60 minutes. That shouldn’t be too expensive.

          • john 5 years ago

            I qualified and one worker is all that is needed

      • john 5 years ago

        It is better to put the price of the system up not the supposed cost per KW.
        As you are aware this is meaningless due to different situations.

      • Steve Young 5 years ago

        Solarcity has an all in figure of $US7,140 for an installed 7kWh system. This is around $A9,100 at the current exchange rate. Using ATA assumptions around discharge and cycles (70%, 5000 cycles) (http://www.ata.org.au/wp-content/projects/Unplug_final.pdf) that gives you a LCOE of 37 cents/kWh. You still need to buy energy. The cheapest of which is foregone FiTs at around 6 cents/kWh. This gives you a total cost of 43 cents/kWh

        • Nathan Lim 5 years ago

          Thanks Steve. Seems to me at that price adoption will remain niche or where the value of backup is very high (like at a hospital where there can be no downturn). That said, TSLA is helping to bring the price point down which is still a good thing.

    • Miles Harding 5 years ago

      These are only battery, the inverter/charger is an addition that hasn’t seen the light of day in the Tesla information yet.

      None the less, that $31K for 6.6kwh is ridiculous and these suppliers will have to be a lot sharper and more honest in the future.

      My home-built home storage system cost a lot less than that, but it isn’t very well integrated and the 20kwh LiFePO4 battery isn’t exactly compact or stylish. It is effective, although a cell (1 of 160) got killed (or possibly died from natural causes) when the system under-volted and shut down while charging the car the a few nights back, the result of a run of cloudy days. – I must pay more attention to the state of charge when committing a bunch of kwhs overnight.

      I would happily use Tesla’s batteries as soon as I see a solution to the inverter/charger problem. The battery is 350 to 400 volts, so it needs somewhat specialised compatible gear. Most larger sized industrial UPS systems equipment are in the 350Volt battery range, but I don’t need 100kw AC at home!

      • RobS 5 years ago

        Yes the Bosch system includes the inverter/charger/smart grid interconnect software but imo worst case scenario is those components would cost ~$5,000 and with some more maturity I expect more like $2,000-$2,500. This isn’t a stepwise improvement in off or on grid storage it’s a revolutionary and disruptive leap.

        • Miles Harding 5 years ago

          No more than that I would think. Considering that a good chinese 5KW solar grid tie inverter is something like $800 these days, we can expect the inverter/charger to be not very expensive eventually.

  3. Nick Thiwerspoon 5 years ago

    This seems to be extraordinarily cheap. What is the LCOE?

    • RobS 5 years ago

      20 year warranty let’s assume ~2,500 for inverter and installation making the 10kwh unit $6,000. Let’s assume 80% daily cycling that’s 8kwhx365x20 is 58,400 lifetime Kwhs or 10.2c/Kwh

      • Nick Thiwerspoon 5 years ago

        Thanks. I came up with a much higher number, didn’t see the 20 year guarantee, assumed a 5 year life. Much lower than peak and about 20% cheaper than offpeak where I live. Extraordinary. A game changer.

    • john 5 years ago

      I actually do not think it is as cheap as it will be as soon as the Giga Factory gets into production.
      lets do a quick rough calculation over 10 years at 10 kwh a day
      36500 kwh
      cost system $3500/36500 = $0.095 or 10cents a KwH.
      So lets say 10 cents a KwH how is that

      • Alastair Leith 5 years ago

        That’s less than peak and off-peak in Victoria, especially if you are on GreenPower™. I hope flow batteries and Ultrabattery can counter-punch, they seem more suited, even if the packaging is less elegant. And it’s early days with graphene supercapacitors which in conjunction with battery storage could up the power delivery using a hybrid model (a bit like Ultrabattery does with lead-acid)

        • john 5 years ago

          I am actually across it

          • Alastair Leith 5 years ago


          • john 5 years ago

            Am very much of the opinion that flow batteries are a better proposition for home use because of the fact they can go to zero DOD and then be recharged to any level and discharged with no ill effect.

      • Nick Thiwerspoon 5 years ago

        Battery costs have been falling at about 15% per annum, so yeah, but as a commenter says below, Tesla may be loss-leading for now, expecting profits to pick up as costs decline.

    • john 5 years ago

      LCOE Long Time Cost of Energy.
      So you look at the cost and divide it by the total amount of power it provides,
      With PV the figures are about 12c KwH and dropping all the time.
      Very rough figures for Tesla Wall $3500, 10 years output 10 kwh per day
      so lets use 350 days by 10 years by 10 KwH = 25000 Kwh
      so LCOE is $3500/25000 = 14 cents per Kwh.
      It totally depends how much is used however from 14 to 10 cents a KwH and this can only go down.

      • Nick Thiwerspoon 5 years ago

        I found this article ( http://rameznaam.com/2015/04/30/tesla-powerwall-battery-economics-almost-there/ ) which points out that the reason the Tesla car batteries last so long is that they’re not normally discharged by more than 50%. So I suspect that the battery’s software won’t allow them to be discharged below 50% so that not too many warranty claims are made, which would make the LCOE 23 US cents per kWh.

        The article also has an informative chart showing the decline in battery prices. The market leaders are doing 8% on average per annum, which suggests this cost could halve in 8 years. My guess is that the decline will be faster than that (the whole industry cost decline is 14% per annum, and the data I found previously suggested 15% p.a.)

        • john 5 years ago

          Of course the software will not let them go very low because Li are destroyed when flattened.
          One of the reasons I think that flow battery tech is much better it can be in any state of charge zero, 50% and drawn down or recharged.
          However as often happens with new tech it is not necessary the best tech that gets up it is the one who grabs market share.
          Getting large volume sales is very much in Tesla’s best interest and that will enable them to market a car very much lower in price a good situation for the company

  4. Jason 5 years ago

    gentlemen start your engines!!! hahahaha… oops I guess that isn’t relevant any more! this is incredible let the orgy of transition off fossil fuel power centralized electricity begin!!!!

    • john 5 years ago

      Actually there are a heap of storage start-ups out there one in fact one has raised over $1 billion dollars and yes I expect they will fail due to not having a sales base to sustain their raisings not unexpected in any new industry area

        • john 5 years ago

          Yes Michael F you have put your finger on the company I am of the thought will not survive.
          Too much Capex frankly.
          The product may be good but they need sales and volume to be sustainable.

  5. lin 5 years ago

    Sounds promising. This would mean I could be self sufficient on about 98% of days for about $5K. Next question is whether it makes sense to maintain a grid connection at >$1/per day, or whether a small backup gen set is a better option. Grid and power station owners may need to start being reasonable with their fixed charges.
    The max operating temp at 43 degrees needs looking at. 55 degrees would be a more realistic figure.

    • john 5 years ago

      First off you need to look at how much say a 5KW system may deliver you in Victoria about sub 7000 kw a year.
      Now not every day you will use the output that is why you get a backup system.
      So you look at your peak usage and average then work out the amount you can put into storage.
      So 5 kw grid of good quality about $7k and backup of at least 4 kw demand using these figures that would be $8k and upwards.
      So your up for about $15 k
      This may be able to meed your expectations set out an excel sheet and do the figures I would advise.
      Just remember at some times low power out put of an array will not deliver the expected.

      • lin 5 years ago

        I already have panels installed that generate more power than we use on most days of the year. The price quoted for 7kWh battery was around $3.5K plus installation. Add in a backup gen set gives me around $5K extra to spend when these become available.

        • john 5 years ago

          I would still look at flow batteries because they can be in any state of charge and be lowered to zero and then recharged to full however just remember that LI will fail if totally discharged
          You said a 7 KwH battery just look at the kw power rating can you actually pull out more that 1.5 to 2 kilowatt to run the stove and jug?

  6. Tony Bosworth 5 years ago

    Brilliant! I can’t believe the price, to be honest. If it does come to Australia at around that price – allowing for exchange rate – it should be a game changer, or at least the beginning of a major shift. Really good news. Well done, Tesla.

  7. john 5 years ago

    My thoughts are these this is the first price for the Tesla Power Wall.
    As soon as the Giga Factory gets up and running not $350 US a Kwh it will be downward of $200 a KwH.
    One small point you have to take into calculations the demand power i.e. KW demand.
    This offering is talking about 2 Kw but most houses have a demand of power in the 5 or more region when they are cooking using the jug etc.
    So when doing your figures just take that into consideration so you need at least 2 or 3 of these power packs to be able to supply the immediate power demand your appliances need.
    I thought the tech of the video was good and not over done.

    • RobS 5 years ago

      These generally won’t need to service total peak demand, it is all about peak shaving, taking a few kw off the top of the demand through the evening peak, shaves off 2kw of demand for 4-5 hours, allows you to use up excess daytime solar generation to avoid exporting it for the peanuts the utilities pay and/or use off peak grid energy at times of peak demand. Off grid applications would need several of these both for peak capacity and storage needs.

      • john 5 years ago

        You are absolutely correct as I said the demand of a house will be higher that this can deliver so we both understand the situation.
        My feeling is get enough back up to meat the large demand you need.

        • RobS 5 years ago

          My feeling is that back up doesnt need to service typical peak demand, during an outage its not that much of an inconvenience to not be able to run your cooker, microwave, hair dryer and A/C all at once, just keeping the lights and a computer on is a big start. More importantly however is that blackout backup is a secondary function, the primary one is storing surplus solar generation rather than grid feeding it for internal consumption after hours.

    • Alastair Leith 5 years ago

      That’s assuming Tesla aren’t loss-leading on the price and in which case may stay the same for some time. Apple’s pricing is opaque but they ramp production capacity after the launch of products and keep the fixed price (so internal ROI would ramp up over time), Tesla being the Apple of EV’s eye not unlikely they’d do same.

      I’m interested to know if the tech breakthrough hinted at by Panasonic with these units has/will be announced.

  8. john 5 years ago

    Lets look at the actual figures from Tesla

    mounted, rechargeable lithium ion battery with liquid thermal control.

    10 kWh $3,500 For backup applications
    7 kWh $3,000 For daily cycle applications

    WarrantyTen year warranty with an optional ten year extension.

    Efficiency92% round-trip DC efficiency

    Power2.0 kW continuous, 3.3 kW peak

    Voltage350 – 450 volts

    Current5 amp nominal, 8.5 amp peak output

    CompatibilitySingle phase and three phase utility grid compatible.

    Operating Temperature-4°F to 110°F / -20°C to 43°C

    EnclosureRated for indoor and outdoor installation.

    InstallationRequires installation by a trained electrician. AC-DC inverter not included.

    Weight220 lbs / 100 kg

    Dimensions52.1″ x 33.9″ x 7.1″
    130 cm x 86 cm x 18 cm

    CertificationsUL listed

    This is what Giles posted before

  9. shinytop 5 years ago

    Lived happily with an 18Kw pack for 18years up-graded to a 24Kw pack 5 years ago, lead acid, cost $10k.

    At projected prices, $10,12k would give me much more usable storage, no more panic about DoD, 80% as apposed to 30% plus 10/20 yr warranty versus 3yr,

    At my age the sooner the better.

    • shinytop 5 years ago

      Just read posts on inverters, approx 12 years ago I purchased a 2000 watt SAE unit cost $2200, 3 years ago I bought a 3000 watt unit same brand, reason much higher surge demand, both excellent units for our situation.

  10. phred01 5 years ago

    Wonder what the cost of inverters etc will be. This may turn out to be a sting in the tail

    • nakedChimp 5 years ago

      $300-500 for a 2kW inverter should do.. once this hits the market.

  11. Coley 5 years ago

    While wishing Tesla all the best,this does seem a bit like putting all your lithium ion eggs into one basket, given the amount of people claiming to be on the cusp of battery technology breakthroughs?

  12. WR 5 years ago

    Its hard to know for certain (because there is currently no info on the number of charge/discharge cycles the batteries are capable of) but it looks like these batteries are going to deliver electricity at a price of about 10-15c/kWh, depending on the size of deployment. So if the batteries are incorporated with wind or PV, they would add about 1.3-2 cents/kWh to the price of utility scale RE and about 6-8 cents/kWh to the price of residential PV electricity.

    The difference in price between utility scale RE and residential PV is mostly due to the amount of energy stored in each system. In a utility scale system where wind and PV are supplying about 80% of the energy, only about 15% of the renewable energy would be stored. The other 85% of the RE would be used as it is generated.
    In a residential system where the total generation from PV is about equal to the household’s annual energy demand, around 50% of PV energy would be stored with about 30-35% used as its generated, and the other 15-20% returned to the grid. This assumes a heavy evening demand peak usage profile.

    Note that although the battery system is adding 6-7 cents to the price of each kWh used in the residential situation, it is enabling the householder to more than double the usage of their PV-generated energy from about 35% up to about 80%.

    The formula to work out the overall (cents/kWh) price of electricity from a generation plus storage system is:

    Overall price = ( Price of generation (c/kWh) + battery charge cycle efficiency x percentage of generation stored x Price of stored electricity (c/kWh) ) / ( 1 – (1 – battery efficiency) x percentage stored)

    An example for a utility scale system might be:
    RE electricity generation price of 8c/kWh
    Storage cycle efficiency of 85%
    % of generation stored = 15%
    Price of stored electricity = 12c/kWh
    Overall price of the system = ( 8c/kWh + 0.85 x 0.15 x 12c/kWh) / (1 – (1 – 0.85) x 0.15)
    = 9.75 c/kWh

    So adding the capability of storing 15% of the generated energy would increase the overall cost of the generated electricity by 1.75 c/kWh from 8 c/KWh to 9.75 c/kWh.

    p.s. Note that in the residential system, installing even a single 5-10 kWh battery with a 3-5 kW PV system would reduce the energy being sent to the grid from the current value of about 65% of generation down to about 15-20% of generation. This would greatly reduce the need for the hypothetical ‘PV-ready’ network upgrade.

    p.p.s. Sorry, I forgot to mention the size of the battery that the calculations for the residential system are based on.

    The calculations are for a grid-connected system where battery size would be a bit more than half of the average daily energy demand (excluding off-peak hot water which is on a separate meter.) For example, if your average daily demand was 12 kWh (excluding off-peak HW) with a strong peak in the evening, installing 3-3.5kW of PV panels would generate about the same amount of energy as you use. You would be using about 35-40% of this energy while the remainder is being sent to the grid. Installing a 7kWh battery as described in the article above would allow you to use about 80% of the generated energy, with about 5% lost in charging the battery and the remaining 15% sent to the grid.

    • adam 5 years ago

      Hi WR, did you consider that PowerWall nominal rating is 2kW?

      Therefore, during the day, a 3.5kWh system will not be moving full output to the battery.

      You would need two PowerWalls for that.

      • WR 5 years ago

        The 2 kW rating doesn’t make much of a difference. The batteries would only be charging when there is excess supply. For most household’s demand profiles, there would be more than enough hours of excess supply during the day to recharge 7 kWh at a maximum of 2 kW. My calculations take weather into account.

        • adam 5 years ago

          thanks. I meant more on a PV utilisation basis rather than can the batteries fully charge. i.e., you’d still be selling a fair bit back to the grid at the FiT.

          • WR 5 years ago

            Attached is a link to an MS-Excel file that models PV plus wind output versus demand in the Victoria/South Aust region from April 2014 to March of this year. The file is hosted on a friend’s Google Drive account. You will need to download it in order to use the file. I just posted it there, so it should be virus-free.

            The relevant workbook for household PV is the Residential PV+Storage one.

            You can change the values in the yellow and orange input cells to model different amounts of PV, storage, and demand.

            You adjust demand by changing the number in the yellow box at cell AM2. A value of 1 in the yellow cell corresponds to 12.3 kWh/day.

            PV and storage amounts are adjusted using the numbers in the orange cells. Note that the PV value in the orange cell does not equal the amount on your roof. The actual panel value is shown in the top left of the purple area. A value of 0.29 in the orange cell represents a 5 kW installation. Check to see how the orange value corresponds with the purple value. The storage value refers to useable storage taking depth-of-discharge into account.

            Output is shown in the large purple area. The keys for the graphs are at the right-hand end of each graph.

            The demand profile is entirely hypothetical and is shown in the little graph near the top of the page. Feel free to change this to test different demand profiles.

            On the timescale: 0.125 is 3am, 0.25 is 6am, etc up to a whole number at midnight.

            The wind data is real data from this website. http://energy.anero.id.au/wind-energy

            The PV data is an average of the Vic/SA data from the APVI website. http://pv-map.apvi.org.au/live

            P.S. The demand data on the other worksheets is real data for Vic/SA. It is from the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) website. http://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/Data/Price-and-Demand/Aggregated-Price-and-Demand-Data-Files

          • WR 5 years ago

            I think I know what you mean now.
            Using more PV power as it is generated reduces the average price of the power you use. So, in terms of PV utilisation, the less PV power that you use directly, the more cost effective the batteries become for a given battery size and cost. This is because the PV+battery price is more competitive against the utility price (of, say, 30 c/kWh) than it is against the PV price (of about 6-10 c/kW/h). So the battery price is more competitive if you are using a high proportion of power from the grid and a low proportion directly from PV than vice versa.

            Of course, if you are using more power directly and storing less in the battery, than you should be looking to buy a smaller and, hopefully, cheaper battery.

  13. James Hilden-Minton 5 years ago

    Musk has tweeted that the price at utility scale will be $US250/kWh.

  14. Petra Liverani 5 years ago

    Inspiring speech by Elon Musk at launch. Please share.

  15. JonathanMaddox 5 years ago

    I feel almost a little bit sad for the non-electrochemical power storage startups out there like Lightsail and Isentropic. Their innovative technologies which don’t require the same sophisticated electrochemical material supply probably won’t see commercial adoption in the face of battery storage at these low prices. But hey. We get storage anyway 🙂

    In the long run, it might be that there’s not enough cobalt or lithium available on Earth (in the Ultimately Recoverable Resource estimate sense) to switch the entire planet over to intermittent generation buffered in Li-ion batteries, any more than it’s possible with lead-acid (https://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/08/nation-sized-battery/) but there’s certainly enough that, at this price, it could become the preferred tech for power capacity over the next decade or more.

  16. Alex Georgiou 5 years ago

    Game changing indeed – this is going to give the power back to Australians – not retailers! A friend of mine works at http://www.heartau.com – I don’t know much about it but he keeps talking about lithium ion battery systems that are installing right now. Ask for Michael

  17. Alex Georgiou 5 years ago

    check out http://www.heartau.com they have some lithium ion battery systems similar to the Tesla pack today

    • ChrisEcoSouth 5 years ago

      What you are saying here and elsewhere is construed as you giving free plugs for some business, and this may be against the policy of this forum.

  18. wombat_7777 5 years ago

    I think they are targetting the fact we will have power blackouts due to the power companies being forced to shut down perfectly good coal power plants to appease the scientifically unprovable “CO2= evil” myth. Catastrophic man made Climate Change is a huge scientifically unprovable myth. And no I dont work for oil or coal interests. Cue the “97% of scientists” myth next……
    I think I’d prefer lead acid – having a masisve lipo bolted to the side of my house …ever seen them burn?…..maybe not. And no, I dont work for lead acid battery people. Good idea, but I’d want a full fire supression system to go with it.

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