Anti-wind turbine syndrome: We need to clear the air

Wind turbines are subject to a disproportionate array of myths, compared to other generation technologies. From throwaway lines about bird deaths, to catastrophic misunderstandings of science and engineering, the opponents of wind energy tirelessly propagate odd falsehoods, based on a ferocious antagonism towards wind energy. These fictions, often deployed in rapid sequence, are difficult to combat. Significantly, the anti-wind lobby binds these falsehoods to a passionately emotive ethos, manifesting as unfiltered hostility. This tactic exposes an unnerving and worrisome fact – to influence public sentiment, evidence is unnecessary – myth and contempt might easily suffice.

A protest at a wind farm development in Midlothian, Scotland in 2006 saw the burning of a wind turbine effigy. The wind farm was ultimately not approved. – Photograph by Julie Howden Source: National Wind Watch

Earlier this year, climate sceptic James Delingpole published an article in The Australian, outlining his views of wind energy. He concluded with this quote:

“As a NSW sheep farmer fighting tooth and nail to stop a wind farm development near his beloved home told me the other day in trenchant style: ‘The wind-farm business is bloody well near a pedophile ring. They’re fucking our families and knowingly doing so’.”

Publishing comments that equate the wind industry with a pedophile ring, whilst unexceptional for Delingpole, might once have been considered a claim too wretched for a major national broadsheet. Delingpole’s article was re-posted more than 500 times, mostly by anti-wind groups. Astonishingly, the Hamilton Veterinary Practice, in western Victoria also republished the article, in a blog post on May 20. Though it is traditionally unusual to chance across industry-wide slander about child abuse on the website of a small rural vet clinic, it comes as no surprise when bedded in the context of the efforts of anti-wind groups across Australia.

Emotive references to ‘monsters’ and ‘bird-choppers’ are often deployed when groups organise protests against wind farms

In 2004, the Order of Australia Medal was awarded to Dr Alan C Watts, of the Carcoar Medical Practice in NSW, for “Service to medicine as a general practitioner and through the implementation of Q fever vaccination programs.” As a reputable and demonstrably dedicated medical professional, one might expect mythology and scorn to be absent from his public statements. The following phrase was penned in a letter to Senator Steven Fielding on April 4, 2011:

“There is a certain irony in the fact that many Australian tax payers are unwilling subsidisers of a highly inefficient form of non-base load energy production which may be causing them harm. This equates to being raped and forced to provide your own condom to avoid a sexually transmitted disease.”

The metaphor, confused, clumsy and sexist, seems to be a surprising and jarring inclusion, betraying the hyperbolic nature of the language often deployed with regards to wind farms. At the Blayney Shire Council meeting on wind farms, held in November 2011, Alan Watts stood up and delivered the following opinion concerning a colleague of mine who was attending the meeting to address community concerns about Infigen Energy’s proposed wind farm development:

“If you check his fingernails, you’ll see that they’re blue. Because he’s got his head so far up his arse, he’s cyanosed.”

A vigorous round of applause, along with laughter, rung out after Dr Watts delivered this line. The chair of the meeting chastised Dr Watts for the surprisingly personal slur – this rebuke has been edited out of the video proudly posted on the Wind Turbine Syndrome website, which boasts: “Doctor gets graphic re. wind developer’s anatomy.” Though it may seem initially odd that a website purporting to be providing medical information engages in childish bluster, again we observe the combination so frequently present in discourse by anti-wind groups. Non-scientific claims, closely followed by tellingly emotive barbs, infiltrate the arena of public discourse around this energy technology.

“Wind Turbine Syndrome”, the purported illness experienced by residents living close to wind farms, was coined in a book published by Nina Pierpont, in 2009. It is assertedly caused by infrasound – sound waves at a frequency below 20 hertz which are, for the most part, inaudible. Infrasound is emitted from most modern machinery – cars, air conditioners, refrigerators and natural sources, such as the beach.

If a doctor stood up at a public meeting, and claimed that the beach was triggering primal rage attacks, it is unlikely their hypothesis would be well respected. Curiously, arguments that are significantly sillier are being deployed successfully by the anti-wind lobby, to inspire fear and anxiety in communities that are considering the viability of wind farm developments in their area.

Nina Pierpont’s manufactured syndrome seems, then, to provide a sufficient bedrock for individuals and lobby groups to express contempt in a truly emotive context.

If Pierpont satisfies the mythology aspect of anti-wind efforts, then her husband, Calvin Luther Martin, certainly embodies the spite. He has been “Fighting the wind bastards well over four years,” and declares that “for wind energy the most appropriate language is profanity, vulgarity, and obscenity. The louder the better.” His approach to attacking the wind industry is recognisable: “Screw concerned and start getting angry and defiant. And stop asking the windies questions and start informing them of the fact they and their goddam monster turbines and substations are not welcome in town.” Martin proposes the tactical deployment of aggression, and the eradication of calm, collected discourse. This is neatly representative of much of the public discourse surrounding wind farm developments in Australia.

This conflation of myth and spite displays a growing efficacy when deployed in communities. Victoria’s wind farm planning laws are now suitably onerous, with the clear intent of dismantling the wind industry. New South Wales has released draft wind farm planning guidelines that take misconceptions into serious consideration. The impact of this fictitious health scare has resulted in serious detriment to the wind industry, the results of which will no doubt be felt in Australia’s economy for generations to come.

Anti-wind groups take a derisive nature towards scientific reviews of evidence, whilst demanding that further evidence be obtained before wind farms are built. This image is taken from the ‘Wind Turbine Syndrome’ website, in reference to a government ‘Rapid Review’ of the health impacts of wind turbines.

To counter this trend, the wind industry must engage in a full, frank and scientifically defensible effort to quash the many myths that invariably orbit wind developments in Australia. As is always the case, scientific truth is significantly more valuable than falsehood. Safe, efficient and most importantly, non-invasive to communities and the environment, wind energy has a vital role to play in transitioning away from energy sources that damage the planet’s physical systems.

Significantly, individuals will come to harm as they experience needless anxiety as the direct result of unscientific health claims. The onus is on the wind industry, and the media, to present clear and relatable information. We need to cast light on this regrettably murky topic.

Ketan Joshi is a data analyst at Infigen Energy, who has completed a Bachelor’s degree in neuroscience and psychology.

Ketan Joshi is a European-based climate and energy consultant.

Comments

45 responses to “Anti-wind turbine syndrome: We need to clear the air”

  1. Barrie Harrop Avatar

    Wished we could harness these anti-wind farm people on the case of dirty coal fired energy plants,they have some real health impacts to consider.

    1. Nature lover Avatar
      Nature lover

      Totally agree! Hmm, mercury, sulphur, nitrous oxide – not to mention climate change! I can tell you for certain which industry impacts my health and which protects it!

    2. Ketan Joshi Avatar
      Ketan Joshi

      The use of misnomers in climate-change skeptic circles is fairly unashamed. You’ll often hear proponents of WTS say ‘I’m not anti wind farm but…’.

      You can see for yourself, in the link below, the fairly astronomical absurdity of that claim.

      http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Fen-Beagle-fixed.jpg

  2. Nature lover Avatar
    Nature lover

    If only we could harness all the hot air coming out of these childish and misguided lobbyists, we could power the whole planet with them.

  3. Ben Courtice Avatar

    The semi-hysterical atmosphere isn’t just unpleasant. It leads some of the less balanced members of the community to scary and violent behaviour.

    In Canada: “He reached over his back seat, and pulled out a shotgun, pointed it at me and stated, ‘Why don’t you leave us all alone? If I catch you back here again, I’m going to kill you,’” Damen said.”
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/07/31/wdr-wind-turbines-death-threats.html

    In Victoria: “Threatening slogans have been sprayed across the exterior and interior of the sheds, relating to wind farms, and equipment has been smashed both inside and outside the buildings.”
    http://www.araratadvertiser.com.au/news/local/news/general/reward-offered-for-information/2523787.aspx

  4. Ben W Avatar
    Ben W

    “Non-scientific claims, closely followed by tellingly emotive barbs, infiltrate the arena of public discourse around this energy technology.

    Wind Turbine Syndrome.”

    I read these words in the middle of the article and thought – what a great definition. From now on, WTS shall be defined as “Those who suffer from this syndrome infiltrate the arena of public discourse around wind energy with non-scientific claims, closely followed by emotive barbs.”

  5. Lewis M. Dickens lll Avatar
    Lewis M. Dickens lll

    I am totally for the use of wind energy but also totally against pathetic engineering.

    The extremely low efficiency 3 bladed wind engines were found in the bottom drawing files at NASA dated 1946.

    That the politicians have been sold on these antiquated and unmeasured designs is appaling.

    Proper designs would have been developed through a wind testing and development facility heuristically by testing all sorts of designs. And the testing facility would have a dynamometer and absolutel no ducted flow wind tunnel because they would supercharge and distort the performance.

    It is stunning that no one posts the efficiencies of their machines yet we see all sorts of claims of 5% increases of efficiencies!!!

    5% increase on what????

    This sort of purposeful distortion would get the perpetrators thrown out of Michigan Engine.

    1. Ketan Joshi Avatar
      Ketan Joshi

      Hi Lewis M Dickens III,

      Quantifying and improving wind turbine efficiency is part of my job. Efficiency (the quantity of kinetic energy in the wind converted to electrical energy) is subject to thousands of variables (wind regime, weather, control system, components etc), and changes every second, for every wind turbine, in every location.

      Testing can only be performed in wind tunnels, as that is the only way to accurately obtain the first part of the equation (kinetic energy stored in wind). These tests are *legally binding performance metrics*, and are a central focus of both WTG operators and manufacturers, during development, construction and the operational life of the machine.

      To claim that any efficiency tests on wind turbines will always be purposeful distortion is bonkers.
      http://www.wind-works.org/articles/PowerCurves.html

      NASA’s wind turbine designs were all two-bladed, and they were designed in the 70’s, not the 40’s. The only references I found to designs from 1946 were from other comments you’ve posted, using slightly different names.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_wind_turbines
      http://www.gizmag.com/sandia-labs-off-shore-wind-turbine/23544/ (comments section)

      ‘Pathetic’ is not a term regularly deployed in the engineering world. That you chose to use it shows that you likely harbour some ill-will towards the wind industry’s current choice of technology.

  6. Ross McNeilage Avatar
    Ross McNeilage

    The huge, three or two blade windmill type generators ARE ugly and intrusive. However they are the best we have to offer at the moment, and should be used until something better comes along.
    The NIMBY reaction is perfectly understandable.
    Lewis, every wind turbine company publishes their efficiency ratings in various winds. The better types of three blade windmillasaurus are around 32-35% out of a possible 59%. Better than the standard internal combustion engine,

    1. Ketan Joshi Avatar
      Ketan Joshi

      Ross,

      I partially agree, but using a term like ‘windmillasaurus’ is clearly intended to evoke an emotional reaction in the reader, in the absence of empirical evidence. It’s a commonality I mentioned in the article.

      The emotional response of an individual to the aesthetic nature of a wind farm is not necessarily representative of the community that surrounds that wind farm – often, the voice of the community is drowned out by hyperbolic claims of disgust, size and intrusion, by those with the simple motive of eradicating the use of a generation technology.

      Research, grounded in best-practice scientific methodology, reveals how communities, on the whole, feel about wind farms – the links below are a good starting point about community attitudes towards the aesthetics of wind energy.

      http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-Structure/Flagships/Energy-Transformed-Flagship/Exploring-community-acceptance-of-rural-wind-farms-in-Australia.aspx

      http://realdoctorstu.com/2011/05/17/are-wind-turbines-ugly-new-research-gives-answers/

      http://www.infigenenergy.com/about-us/news/local-survey-finds-wind-farm-good-for-business.html
      Note that this one was commissioned by my employer, but was conducted by an independent company)

    2. simon holmes a court Avatar
      simon holmes a court

      ross, are you sure you are not confusing capacity factor (theoretical limit of 100%) with efficiency (betz’ law puts the upper limit at 59%)?

  7. Martin Nicholson Avatar

    Ketan, there is no doubt that wind power is surrounded by many myths but I can’t agree that they do worse than other generation technologies. Nuclear power has been subjected to outrageous myths concerning safety ever since Three Mile Island. What’s worse for nuclear is that some governments in the world seem to believe these myths are true and either ban the technology (Australia) or abandon it (Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Japan). So I think the wind power industry is doing pretty well in comparison.

    1. Ketan Joshi Avatar
      Ketan Joshi

      Hey Martin,

      Agreed – Nuclear energy has seen many of the same techniques and patterns with regards to mythology used in opposition.

      No reason to let the same thing happen to the wind industry, though.

  8. Lecourt Avatar
    Lecourt

    It amazes me:

    -to observe wind opponents spending their whole effort trashing wind turbines using one sided myths with never a mention of any benefits arising.
    -further, they never even acknowledge the proven shortcomings of other energy types.
    -lastly, I have never seen a reasoned “opponent created” alternative energy mix which they tabled to supply the Country’s needs.

    Isn’t it time they put some thought and reasoning into their pitch?

  9. Henk Daalder Avatar

    The real cause of “problems” with wind farms is the exclusion of citizens from the process and gains from the wind farm.

    Most wind farms are built by a “business”
    But the wind farm is build IN a colletively owned concept, we call landscape.

    What to do:
    Local government and politicians should legitimate a wind farm when it is necessary for the community
    Local government should be involved in the wind farm design. How much, is a matter of local culture.

    Citizens should get a chance to invest in the windfarm, for a share that delivers the electricity they need at home and power the electric car they will use during the life time of the windfarm.
    But whether to invest is their own decision

    The wind farm should be designed following the rules of well designed wind farms. Visially pleasant to te eye, with understandable structure. Most of the time trhis will result in a single line of turbines, and no other turbines within a radius of 8 tot 10 km.

    Of course the potetnial owners have a large say in where their turbines will be built, if they want that

    A wind farm is almost always a community thing, even if it not community owned.

    1. Barrie Harrop Avatar

      Henk, are you suggesting we should all take this adoption of an energy resource to the dirty brown coal fired plants?

      By the way in Europe separation from a dwelling is acceptable at 600m from a turbine,i have visited sites where it less than 200m no one has any issues,wonder why?

      1. Henk Daalder Avatar

        No
        Wind power developers should help citizens in the area to organize themselves.
        To get a share of the wind farm

        Ownership (partly) of the project gives them influence on their landscape
        And delivers a share of the energy to their home.

        This ownership is the reason they are not disturbed by the minimal noise of a wind turbine.

        Because of spatial regulations, hundreds of farmer familioes, lif near the turbine, within 100 m of the farm house, for more than 10 years now, and without any negative effects.

        Ownership is the key element, and greed by wind power businesses is what is holding back sustainability

        1. Barrie Harrop Avatar

          Henk,
          The model you are advocating has some merit ,its becoming a trend in Europe with smaller wind farms,my view is that that the future is about distributed wind energy Hybrid Power systems where the customers actually use the energy or water.

          1. Henk Daalder Avatar

            Barrie
            “Has som emerit”

            Germany has about 50% of its wind farms citizen owned
            Denmark more than 70%

  10. George Papadopoulos Avatar
    George Papadopoulos

    Ketan,
    Take a couple of examples of “science” and “logic” from the wind industry propaganda machine:

    Firstly, claims of “Mass hysteria”. The claim is supported by Simon Chapman’s unrefined list of 183 claims against wind turbines. One of Chapman’s recent additions includes claims of “monks unable to pray”, “monks crying”. He references it against a newspaper article. He avoids quoting or mentioning the fact that the Buddhist monks of Tharpaland commissioned their own research to support these claims. Strange isn’t it?

    I recently sent Simon Chapman an e-mail with three research papers regarding the effects of wind turbines on marine ecology. Chapman hasn’t added these to his list. Why? It’s best for him to answer the question, but I think it’s he hasn’t got any trivia to quote. However if I were to post a comment on the Conversation claiming that marine ecology is changing around wind turbines it might easily make it on his list.

    Second example: the labels of “emotive language”, “anti-wind syndrome”, wind turbine “haters” etc. As someone who has studied psychology, I ask you the question: if one has their lifestyle and health encroached upon by industrial development, aren’t you surprised that we haven’t seen something more than just strong words of frustration and anguish by those affected from wind turbines?

    1. Ketan Joshi Avatar
      Ketan Joshi

      Hi George,

      No research was ‘commissioned’. It was authored entirely by the retreat themselves, in which they use their own brochures, CDs, and DVDs as references.
      http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Executive_Summary.pdf
      is the summary, in which they insist that ‘spiritual factors’ must be taken into account in wind farm siting. Details on their methodology, measurement, sample sizes etc are impossible to find.

      Simon Chapman, I imagine, experiences difficulty being part of the ‘wind industry propaganda’ machine, given his current role at Sydney University, in Public Health.

      Wind farms do not decrease property values, and they do not directly affect human health. Efforts to prove otherwise are centered around selective quoting, pseudoscience and inventive emotional manipulation. Reactions of anger, hostility, anxiety and fear are precisely coincident with the efforts of anti-wind groups fostering these reactions, as you can well see from the tone of discourse practiced by these groups, and notably, by yourself.

      “Wind farms = sonic torture concentration camps” – do you stand by your claim that wind farms are comparable to the most horrific and bloody genocide of the 20th century?

      Can you understand how statements like that damage and bring down the discussion around energy systems in Australia?
      http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/wind-2km-setback (Comments section)

      1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
        George Papadopoulos

        Ok, I get the picture – Buddhists who went to the expense to find a tranquil peaceful and NATURAL environment to form a meditation retreat, can have their own research rubbished by Infigen’s batchelor of psycho/neuro staff member – because of flaws in research methods/paper writing skills.

        Do you not understand that there is an issue with infrasound and vibration? Do you not understand that the research of these monks demonstrated a relationship of between distance to wind turbines and their inability to enjoy the most important tasks to their existence?

        And meanwhile rural Australia is reacting against wind turbines because someone told them that 150m tall structures are the cause of the shadow flicker coming through their windows. So your psychology degree must have taught you that the intelligence and taste of humans must be far inferior to most living organisms???

        Is just so seems that when someone works for Infigen their scope of understanding is rather limited to the outlay of wind turbines…

    2. Simon Chapman Avatar
      Simon Chapman

      George, not for the first time I fail to follow your logic. What point are your making that because the monks commissioned their research that it I “strange” that I should not mention it? Is commissioned research somehow better or something? The tobacco industry commissions research all the time. does that mean it’s somehow more reliable?
      The three papers ou sent me, if I recall correctly, we’re about the effects on marine environments from installing off-shore turbines. So they looked at the effect on marine life from distrurbng the sea bed etc during construction. My list is about alleged effects of turbines on health after they commence. Get it?

      1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
        George Papadopoulos

        It’s a while since I too last read these papers my dear Simon, but I forwarded them to you very recently.

        If I recall correctly, I think the papers discussed how marine ecology is altered and the suspicion was infrasound/EMF or something similar – not only the construction phase of offshore wind turbines.

        One paper that I sent you was titled “Hearing in fish and their reactions to sounds from offshore wind farms”. Mar Ecol Prog Ser Vol. 288: 295–309, 2005.

        The third paper I sent is titled: “Wind turbine underwater noise and marine mammals: implications of current knowledge and data needs” Mar Ecol Prog Ser Vol. 309: 279–295, 2006.

        I think the title says enough for the moment. If you disagree, please let me know and I will trouble myself to read the papers again.

        And oops, forgot to mention, the dates that these fish were suspected of having “WTS” preceded the beginning of the Pierpont/Laurie “scare” campaign. (2009-2011). What a shame! Please feel free to quote this webpage as reference of just another “hysterical anti-wind turbine” claim.

        1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
          George Papadopoulos

          Simon, by the way how many of the 17 international review papers that you keep quoting were commissioned by the wind industry or pro-wind governments?

          1. Simon Chapman Avatar
            Simon Chapman

            That’s homework for you George. You tell me. And please be clear, if a government commissions an enquiry or an expert report into windfarms, does that mean they are a “pro-wind government” or are they only pro-wind post hoc, if the report concludes wind farms don’t harm people directly?

        2. Simon Chapman Avatar
          Simon Chapman

          George, I know you are affected by the wind turbines 35km away from your house, but I hadn’t appreciated that the effects might include erosion of your ability to comprehend plain English, and the peculiar habit of getting excited by the titles if research papers without actually reading them. Here’s what the paper you are exercised about concludes: “Windmill
          noise does not have any destructive effects upon the hearing abilities of fish, even within distances
          of a few metres. It is estimated that fish are consistently scared away from windmills only at
          ranges shorter than about 4 m, and only at high wind speeds (higher than 13 m s–1). Thus, the acoustic
          impact of windmills on fish is restricted to masking communication and orientation signals rather
          than causing physiological damage or consistent avoidance reactions.”

          1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
            George Papadopoulos

            Well, my dear Simon, if its homework for me to work out what’s behind the 17 international reviews, then its homework for you to include in your list that “wind opponents” like pharmacist George scares people by telling them that “the acoustic impact of windmills on fish is restricted to masking communication and orientation signals” – right here on Renew Economy!

            In case your scientific knowledge can’t make sense of the conclusion, this conclusion equates to interference in an ecosystem and not by just one or two wind turbines but thousands upon thousands over many seas, and not all species and effects have been studied.

            So there is perhaps something wrong with wind turbines don’t you think?

            And who has problems comprehending English and a bit of science?

          2. Simon Chapman Avatar
            Simon Chapman

            If you say so George.I must say, I never realised that pharmacists had such a grip on science! I thought you were little more than store clerks with degrees.

          3. Simon Chapman Avatar
            Simon Chapman

            Uh-oh … George’s day takes another turn for the worse…

            The influence of offshore windpower on demersal fish

            Dan Wilhelmssona,∗,
            Torleif Malmb and
            Marcus C. Öhmana

            ∗Correspondence to D. Wilhelmsson: tel: +46 702 535365; fax: +46 8 167715. e-mail: [email protected].

            Abstract

            A significant expansion of offshore windpower is expected in northwestern Europe in the near future. Little is known about the impacts it may have on the marine environment. Here, we investigate the potential for wind turbines to function as artificial reefs and fish aggregation devices (FADs), i.e. whether they would locally increase fish densities or alter fish assemblages. Fish communities and habitat composition were investigated using visual transects at two windpower farms off the southeastern coast of Sweden, central Baltic Sea. Fish abundance was greater in the vicinity of the turbines than in surrounding areas, while species richness and Shannon–Wiener diversity (H′) were similar. On the monopiles of the turbines, fish community structure was different, and total fish abundance was greater, while species richness and diversity (H′) were lower than on the surrounding seabed. Blue mussels and barnacles covered most of the submerged parts of the turbines. On the seabed, more blue mussels and a lesser cover of red algae were recorded around the power plants than elsewhere. Results from this study suggest that offshore windfarms may function as combined artificial reefs and fish aggregation devices for small demersal fish.

          4. George Papadopoulos Avatar
            George Papadopoulos

            Simon it is so ironic that a public health expert like yourself, who hasn’t got a medical degree, takes the task of diagnosing people around wind farms with “mass hysteria” in the absense of any study, or at least opinion from a treating psychiatrist/psychologist.

            And yes, I agree with the abstract you provide on sea ecology. It is reminiscent of the logic of those who destroy whole forests and ecosystems, plant foreign species, pour fertilizer and pesticides everywhere. They too breed life don’t they! Wow!.

            And also that life giving coal industry which unlocks all those gourgeous nutrients. How’s that for commitment to saving the globe – keep pumping out that plant food called carbon dioxide! Enrich the soil with heaps of heavy metal contaminants – they are a source of things like selenium, zinc and copper (and gold perhaps). And meanwhile allow SO many humans to thrive, get plump fat and sick from highly processed foods – keep the health industry thriving. And all those lovely vermin and insects then find excess food dumped in the tips. Oh, Boy life! Life!

            Thank you Professor Chapman! You have saved the moral standard of the coal industry! I can know go to sleep tonight, that thanks to you, wind turbines are only good out at sea – the coal industry would do well elsewhere.

          5. Simon Chapman Avatar
            Simon Chapman

            Hi George, thank for your great contributions today. A few immortal ones there. Let me tempt you with another. You seem preoccupied with my lack of medical qualifications. As you know, I’ve spent a career researching and commenting on on smoking and health. But according to your reasoning, I should butt out there too I suppose? After all, being non-medical I can’t examine patients in that matter either (and funny thing this .. neither can Sarah Laurie, being unregistered for nearly a decade and all). What would you advise George?

          6. George Papadopoulos Avatar
            George Papadopoulos

            Well my dear Professor,me advise you? Heaven forbid! Your success in bashing the tobacco industry into the ground has already given you all the experience to realise that you as a sociologist should engage yourself more in research such as communicating with those health professionals who have been notifying health authorities of the problems with wind turbines.

            Instead they have turned their trust and attention to people like fellow colleagues like Sarah Laurie, most certainly medically trained but lacking all the networks of researchers, frienships with the NHMRC etc, who could easily done some constructive work in unravelling the mysteries behind these claims.

            Some names include Dr Iser and Dr Harry, and some others who I’m sure that any polite request to the Waubra Foundation might reveal.

            You see I don’t hate you. Under the influence of the wind turbine ILFN,I made a wood carved figurine that reminds me of you. I talk to it and pat it on the head – much as though I had you right in front of me. I refrain from sticking any needles into it…

            I really just wish that we could get on with discussions that doesn’t involve unwarranted labelling of people as hysterics, NIMBYs, coal miners etc.

    3. Mike Barnard Avatar
      Mike Barnard

      The impact of a working offshore wind farm on marine ecology is well understood now: it creates a more vibrant and diverse marine ecology.

      The bases of the wind turbines are artificial reefs which attract a range of small, clinging flora and fauna, which in turn attracts larger fish.

      This has been observed in every offshore wind farm built to date.

      In fact, part of the concern that fishing companies in the United States have about offshore wind turbines in the Gulf of Mexico is that they won’t be allowed to fish around the wind farm. They are hoping to get a piece of the increased action.

      And after the Gulf of Mexico British Petroleum blowout, it is hysterical to claim that wind farms are particularly damaging in any phase of construction or operation to marine ecology.

      1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
        George Papadopoulos

        Pardon the intrusive addition: off shore wind turbines also reduce the problems with crude oil spills. The amount of crude oil making it to the shore is mitigated by the adsorptive surfaces of wind turbine towers further out to sea – no more dead penguins or sea gulls.

      2. Alec Sevins Avatar
        Alec Sevins

        Maybe, but it also turns the ocean into an eyesore industrial park. A poor trade-off. Why ignore the obvious? Millions of younger people will gaze out at the ocean and not see how it was a symbol of endless horizons. They can’t put them far enough out to be invisible, and they’re talking about 700 foot monsters offshore now.

        http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/files/2014/10/wind.jpg

    4. Neil Talty Avatar
      Neil Talty

      George, you seem very concerned about the lifestyle and health effects of wind farms, but choose to ignore the lifestyle, health, and environmental effects of our current method of electricity generation, coal. This is the (once) beautiful Hunter Valley in NSW, a region close to my heart.
      https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hunter,+NSW,+Australia&hl=en&ll=-32.487755,151.062012&spn=0.458718,0.87204&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,55.810547&oq=h&t=h&hnear=Hunter,+New+South+Wales,+Australia&z=10
      All the areas you can see that are not green (prime agricultural land) are gigantic open cut coal mines. Being an expert in psychology, perhaps you could quantify the frustration and anguish experienced by residents of the Hunter when they see their whole region, which once produced crops and livestock, rapidly turning into a landscape that resembles Mars. What are the effects on the lifestyle and health of residents who live nearby this industrial development? What will the effects be upon the lifestyle and health of the 7 billion people on this planet if we allow this type of power generation to continue?

      Wind farms are widely recognised as the most cost effective, environmentally responsible alternative to fossil fuels that we currently have available to us. We may well come up with better ideas in future, but in the meantime the massive amounts of damage being inflicted on our community, and the earth continue.

      By arguing so vehemently against the best solution currently available to us(citing issues that are questionable at best), you are perpetuating the very real, very urgent problem. But then, I don’t suppose anyone has ever tried to put an open cut coal mine or dirty coal fired power station in YOUR backyard. I’ve got a feeling you would become a wind energy enthusiast overnight!

      1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
        George Papadopoulos

        Neil,

        Wind farms are ERRONEOUSLY recognised as “environmentally responsible alternative to fossil fuels”. Too many assumptions I’m afraid to say. Anything that comes out of wind industry sources is dogma – anything else is “questionable”.

        And can you explain what you and others have done to reduce the harm of open cut coal mines? Have you invented a way of making wind turbines without sending load upon load of coal to countries like China and India?

        Furthermore when the wind stops blowing, have you invented a way of preventing the use of wind energy’s nasty cousin: CSG gas?

        I’m sorry to say, you might just find my name of the petition against Hazelton’s coal plant. I can be a little proactive in other ways, unlike Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull who blame anything but wind turbines for the ever increasing electricity prices.

        1. Neil Talty Avatar
          Neil Talty

          George,

          Your first paragraph amounts to nothing more than “he said, she said”. It reminds me of a certain Monty Python skit, but nowhere near as funny.

          Your next paragraph however, had me in stitches. Are you seriously trying to say we should continue burning ever increasing amounts of coal for power so as to avoid exporting small amounts of coal to manufacture wind turbines? Did you think at all before you typed that? You obviously didn’t read it back to yourself or you would realise how ridiculous an argument it is. As for the “countries like China and India” part, please don’t play the race card around here mate. That’s Tony Abbot’s job and from what I’ve seen, I’m pretty sure he’s got it covered.

          As for your next paragraph, I’m happy to say that Yes, about 7-8 years ago I did “invent” a method of mass energy storage. So I did a bit more research and discovered someone beat me to it. By about 120 years or so;
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
          As for the “others” would you listen to the CSIRO?
          http://www.csiro.au/en/Outcomes/Energy/Renewables-and-Smart-Systems/Virtual-Power-Station.aspx
          I doubt it.

          As for your last paragraph, I’m honestly glad to hear that you opposed a coal mine. Would you mind telling me what types of power generation you DO support? Or are you just like Tony Abbott, who only tells us what he’s AGAINST, and is too gutless to tell us what he’s FOR?

          Once again… I doubt it.

          1. George Papadopoulos Avatar
            George Papadopoulos

            Neil,

            It seems that you miss the point of my sarcasm when dealing with people like Simon Chapman.

            My mention of coal going to India and China is not racist. It’s seems just a little in sync with people who believe that Australia should use its “coal status” to encourage better use of carbon resources…

            I’m, afraid to say that as a health professional I don’t “support” forms of energy production. What I do say however is that I am not aware of any problems with solar panel farms or solar thermal plants, and frankly I have personally never experienced anything as bad as wind turbines!

          2. Simon Chapman Avatar
            Simon Chapman

            George, I fear you live a bit of a sheltered life. There are people living all along the coast of Australia who 24/7/365 are exposed to continual infrasound from the sea. Along with 100,000s of other Sydney residents I live 200m under a flight path into Sydney airport so from 6am-11pm, 24/365 I get loud noise,plus car, plus train and on weekends I play in a rock band that would wake the dead. And you have “never experienced anything as bad as a [35km away] windfarm”. Hmmmm.

      2. Alec Sevins Avatar
        Alec Sevins

        Take a look at this photo and tell me which type of power is the most visually intrusive (a rare case of both types in clear visual proximity).

        http://www.appalachianaerialimages.com/data/photos/126_1wv_cnvy1604.jpg

        You don’t see coal or nuclear plants in anywhere near those numbers as you drive through a typical countryside. The energy density and reliability of wind turbines is very low compared to other power plants. There are huge aesthetic losses at stake if more and more turbines get installed. They are put in areas we never expected to see industrialized. Carbon mustn’t become the sole environmental worry of this century.

  11. Blair Donaldson Avatar

    George claims to have studied psychology yet seems to be remarkably blind to the damaging psychology employed by windfarm opponents.

  12. Onur Talas Avatar
    Onur Talas

    stupids everywhere! thanks to wind turbines

  13. Alec Sevins Avatar
    Alec Sevins

    The impact of such huge structures on scenic landscapes is clear to see. How could it be a myth? I think anti wind power arguments should center on aesthetic values above costs, etc. It’s bizarre that anyone identifying as an ‘environmentalist” would be so apathetic about all the acreage that’s being industrialized. The wind turbine plague is in its infancy if future plans go through; there could be millions of these skyscrapers around the globe. The noise and bird/bat kills are very important but secondary to the sheer visual blight, in my opinion. These are unprecedented construction projects in their scale and breadth. The term “energy sprawl” describes it too kindly.

    http://ybvisual.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/portfolio_10.jpg

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