Sudden, bizarre change in solar hot water standard could be disaster for industry

A sudden and unexplained change to building standards, which will require all new rooftop solar hot water systems to face north, could spell disaster for the solar hot water industry.

The standard, which apparently has been worked on for a few years, was only made known to most in the solar hot water industry a week ago. Yet the rules are due to come into effect this weekend.

The industry says it is dumbstruck. It cannot understand why the rule has been introduced and wants a “stay of execution”, at least by changing terminology on the new standard from the mandatory “shall”, to the more flexible “should.”

James Teague, from the Gold Coast-based Bar Plumbing, said: “This beggars belief. Not every house has that roof orientation. Not every household wants their solar hot water system facing north.”

John Grimes, the head of the Australian Solar Council, the major industry group, says one-third of homes adopting rooftop solar hot water do not have north-facing rooftops, and may be lost to the market.

“This will have a devastating impact on the industry,” Grimes told RenewEconomy. “This is a mess. We require an urgent response (to its request to at least change the wording of the standard while proper consultation is made).”

Screen Shot 2016-04-29 at 2.36.19 PMThe ruling, published by Standards Australia, says that every solar hot water system must be orientated within 45° of true north (see extract on the right).

The industry says it cannot think of a single reason why the new standards would insist on all new solar hot water systems facing north. It notes that those facing east or west can still operate at 80 or 90 per cent efficiency. Unlike solar PV, it does not affect grid supply by loading excess supply back into the network at certain times.

“We don’t understand the motivation for this. It seems fishy to us,” Grimes says.

The market leader in the solar hot water industry is Solarhart, owned by Rheem. But solar hot water is only a small part of that company’s hot water offerings, which are dominated by gas and electrical systems. (Rheem later said that it had fought against the new standards, which it also finds “inequitable”.).

The solar hot water industry is already struggling to compete, particularly with falling prices of solar PV, as this graph below from Green Energy Markets illustrates.

solar hot water

Sales, which peaked at 200,000 units a year when the small-scale renewable energy certificate systems was introduced at the end of 2010, has now fallen to around 50,000 – below the 80,000 level before the introduction of SRES system, which provides a rebate on the up-front cost of the systems.

Chris Taylor, from Apricus, a maker of “evacuated tube” solar hot water technology, also says the new ruling could be disastrous for the industry, even though his company’s technology is not affected by the ruling because it can be mounted in a way that ensures it faces north, even on east-west roofs.

But he says the technology that dominates the market – the flat-plate solar hot water system and “thermo-cycling” systems – are not so flexible and could not be mounted on east-west roofs.

“Even though we are fortunate to be in a good position, it is going to knock the industry,” Taylor says.

“Plumbers will think solar hot water too hard. They might decide that they can’t be bothered trying to work out the angles. Once you start seeing mainstream solar hot water companies struggle and disappear, then less people will be looking for the technology.”

He said the ruling will affect those homes looking to replace existing solar hot water systems too.

Grimes says the industry has sought clarity from the environment minister’s office about the potential impact on the STC market, which is unclear. It has not yet received a response.

(Editor’s note: This story has been adjusted to note that Rheem said it fought against the change in standards. A full story on that component can be found here).

Comments

50 responses to “Sudden, bizarre change in solar hot water standard could be disaster for industry”

  1. Alex Avatar
    Alex

    Closed door deals with donor mates? That wouldn’t be like the LNP.

    1. MaxG Avatar
      MaxG

      Spot on! It is all about making any ‘green’ energy solution (in particular those which save a few dollars for the average Joe Public) unpalatable!
      My evac tubes sit at 50 degrees for best autumn / winter / spring performance. When it was sitting on 28 degrees, it was cooking from 10:30 onwards in summer. no longer happening; maybe late arvo on the odd day. F* those regulations! Idiots.

      1. solarguy Avatar
        solarguy

        I’m with you on this Max. We don’t have to accept this BS and we should demand it be turned on it’s head.
        Shows the Lunatic’s in government are happy to shoot themselves in the foot, once again, amazingly when going to an election.

  2. Wally Poole Avatar
    Wally Poole

    Who was the dill that thought this up. My HWS is mounted on our west roof and works fine. Never ever run out of HW. Never bothered to switch on the tariff 33 backup as yet.
    Our biggest gripe is the installers did not put the panel where I wanted them. Instead they installed the system right at the top of the roof. This has resulted in using many litres of water before the hot water reaches our shower etc. If they had put it right above where the old electric system was we would not have noticed any difference. The excuse was first that they had to get away from the trees. No trees then and not trees now. The second excuse was it is closer to the sun. I never worked out how much closer it was 2 metres compared to distance from sun to earth seems little gain to me. Solarhart would not change it so now I am stuck with excess water use every day.

    1. Donald Battaglini Avatar
      Donald Battaglini

      Two metres closer to the sun???? Didn’t they know that the sun is ninety-three million miles away? Two metres is 0.000 000 000 0134 of ninety-three million miles – the gain would have been tremendous, I don’t think.

    2. hydrophilia Avatar
      hydrophilia

      There are pumps you could install to circulate the water just before you use the hot water. I believe you simply press a switch and wait several seconds… It does, however, require a little plumbing and wiring… and a reasonable plumbing layout.

      1. Wally Poole Avatar
        Wally Poole

        I did think of something like that and decided against it due to the fact we are pensioners and the expense was just not worth the effort. I have however put an in line HWS under the sink and it works a real treat. Hot water to the sink in about 2 seconds. Outlay to Mr. Ebay of about $70.00 plus some flexible hose from Mr. Bunnings. There was a spare 240V socket where the old sink masher thing was plugged in. It failed some time ago and I replaced it with a plastic S bend.
        Every day I walk outside and see the HWS on top of the roof I have bad thoughts about Solarhart. I think the real reason it is at the very top was to let everyone know we have a Solarhart HWS. I fixed that by painting over the sign.

  3. Blair Donaldson Avatar
    Blair Donaldson

    You have to wonder if the clowns that dreamt this regulation even know what solar hot water heating is? Surely this is a case of bureaucratic red tape in excess?

  4. Tim Forcey Avatar
    Tim Forcey

    Here’s an article about a form of solar energy (renewable ambient hot water heating heat pump) that doesn’t need a roof. https://reneweconomy.wpengine.com/2015/get-more-out-of-your-solar-power-system-by-using-water-as-a-battery-26228

    1. Mike Dill Avatar
      Mike Dill

      Yes, upgrade your Solar PV arrays, (possibly on an isolated circuit), and use the extra electrons to heat the water. No extra water connections needed.

      This is rational close to the equator and in sunny climes. Where there is less light SHW wins.

    2. solarguy Avatar
      solarguy

      Tim, are you on the standards board? Do you have shares in Sanden? Do you have some sort of commercial agreement with Sanden, regarding comment on heat pumps?
      A heat pump will use electricity average 4kwh/ day, 245 days of the year and more in winter, to hear water only to 60c.
      Where an E.T. SHW will use only about 150kwh/ pa, are able to heat water up to 80c, if properly sized for the load!
      Gee, which of the two are cheaper to run, eh.

      1. Tim Forcey Avatar
        Tim Forcey

        Answers: No. No. No. My mate has the brand of hot water heat pump that you mention. But I don’t spruik any particular brand of anything. The linked article above https://theconversation.com/get-more-out-of-your-solar-power-system-by-using-water-as-a-battery-37807 just talks about what you can do with “excess” PV generated electricity: heat water, with a heat pump.

  5. Stan Hlegeris Avatar
    Stan Hlegeris

    Bizarre, corrupt, and harmful. More so for anyone in the northern half of Australia. From Brisbane north, any slightly northward orientation between due east and due west works well enough.

    I recall wrestling with this issue with PVs in Townsville, where a solar array dipping 5 degrees due south will produce more electricity in a year than the same array with a perfect north orientation in Melbourne. But to get the RECs, it had to tilt north.

    1. hydrophilia Avatar
      hydrophilia

      The RECs may be pushing for the best fit between demand and production rather than the maximum production… at least, this is the charitable hope. In Denver, CO, USA, the systems are often pointed slightly east to maximize daily production (to avoid losses from the frequent PM clouds) even though the maximum need and benefit would come from maximizing that afternoon power: PV owners need either regulations or $ incentives to improve things…

      Still, these new solar wtr htr regs seem to make little sense….

  6. John Saint-Smith Avatar
    John Saint-Smith

    My solar hot water system faces East South East -120 degrees off North! According to these clowns it ought to be a complete disaster. But it is mounted on the roof two meters from the hot water storage tank which is outside the bathroom where the vast majority of the hot water is used, saving piping and the long wait for the hot water. It works a treat!

  7. James Hansen Avatar
    James Hansen

    James Hansen
    i MARVEL AT THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND LACK OF RESEARCH SHOWN BY THESE PEOPLE.
    Firstly, the ideal position may well be on a north facing roof but the pitch of that roof in relation to Latitude can also be a significant factor. Some years ago, Griffith University found solar panels had very similar performance efficiency when facing north, east or west. For my part, in Brisbane 40 years ago, I was pointing out to interested and dubious people that some people were running water through black plastic pipes on the roofs of their garages and generating sufficient heat as to use their backyard swimming pools for an extra four months of the year. The sooner that whoever is responsible for the bureaucratic decision or ministerial direction is asked to justify it publicly, the better.

  8. Nick Pyner Avatar
    Nick Pyner

    Well, clause 6.5.1.3 has me intrigued, and what I would really like to know is how you use a magnetic declination table to set the inclination of a solar panel. I guess table 6.5.1.2 will reveal all. I can’t wait….

    1. A Wall Avatar
      A Wall

      I was thinking the same thing. Also, assuming it means “installed at an elevation within 20 degrees of the site’s latitude”, that is suboptimal anyway! You want it at higher tilt to maximise winter production…

  9. john Avatar
    john

    I would assume they are putting in the regs to ensure for southern latitudes that the panels are facing between north east to north west and at an angle to work best in winter. The cost of an app to find true north is a few seconds mine shows a difference from magnetic north of some 7 degrees. yes the house was originally built by someone with a compass and is 7 degrees off east west.

  10. Brunel Avatar
    Brunel

    How much do these SHW systems cost?

    If $6000, it is better to get solar PV + heat pump.

    1. solarguy Avatar
      solarguy

      Average total cost for an average sized Evacuated Tube SHW system $5k, installed!
      Heat Pump approx. $3,500 plus installation + minimum 1.5kw PV $4k + meter cost $500= IN EXCESS OF $8k.
      See further post by me below.

      1. Brunel Avatar
        Brunel

        $4k for what. People already have solar PV on their rooves.

        1. solarguy Avatar
          solarguy

          And if they don’t it will cost them that much simple. If they do already have PV it most likely will not be enough. What part don’t you understand.

          1. Mike Dill Avatar
            Mike Dill

            Solar Hot Water is close to 100% efficient. Works great in the winter with relatively low insolation. Still works in the summer, but is ‘idle’ for longer periods.
            Solar PV is about 20% efficient. Does not do so well in the winter. The extra energy in the summer can be used to do other things.
            What makes sense for a new install depends on your winter profile. Here in Nevada, the extra PV wins the economic argument, but in cooler and cloudier climates further from the equator, SHW wins.

          2. neroden Avatar
            neroden

            Depends on your water usage too. My hot water usage is extremely peaky. I’ve been thinking of going to on-demand hot water because I’m wasting energy keeping a canister of water hot when it doesn’t get used for 18 hours at a time.

      2. Miles Harding Avatar
        Miles Harding

        Like most things solar and renewable, it pays to update your prices regularly:
        A quick google search indicates the going price for a HP HWS is between $1400(170L) and $2500(300L) with 270L Bosch units currently being advertised for $1800.
        and
        The advertised cost of an additional kW of PV is approximately $800 now.

        These days, it’s fair to assume that any household considering this would also be considering PV, making the incremental cost the factor to use.

        This should put the entrenched solar HWS players on notice.

        1. Brunel Avatar
          Brunel

          Typo? SHW instead of HWS?

        2. solarguy Avatar
          solarguy

          Miles, in the first instance your talking about wholesale prices, I’m talking retail. Even so, cheap HP are rubbish and will severely disappoint. I noticed you didn’t mention installation costs either for both HP and PV, $800 (wholesale) for 1 kw also doesn’t include racking and labour costs.
          A 1kw HP compressor will require more than 1 kw of PV to power it due to losses in wiring and inverter, in fact up to 25%!
          The other factor with HP’s, is in winter their COP drops significantly and PV out put is about 50% less also. So they will require power from the grid to supplement.

    2. JeffJL Avatar
      JeffJL

      When my SHW system is up at temperature I get no more benefit from it. Had I solar panels were it is I would still be getting power generation from them when the water was heated.

      I’m with you.

      1. solarguy Avatar
        solarguy

        Clearly you don’t understand how much power it takes to heat water. Your SHW system is very efficient at doing it’s job, but you would need a lot of PV to run the hot water system as well as other loads plus a lot more roof space.
        Do your self a favour and google how much energy is needed to heat 315lt with electricity, then work out after losses how much PV you will need to achieve that. You and Brunel will feel rather silly then.

        1. hydrophilia Avatar
          hydrophilia

          Some folks who have run the numbers disagree…. of course, it depends strongly on your climate and these guys have to heat the house for most months…
          http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/solar-thermal-dead
          http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/solar-thermal-really-really-dead

          1. solarguy Avatar
            solarguy

            I’ve read the article and it’s very contradictory and doesn’t address facts of PV especially and some false info on SHW.
            In essence it’s cock custard!

  11. solarguy Avatar
    solarguy

    Fishy alright! Stinks of Hunt, sending a directive to the Clean Energy Regulator to me and a hell of pong from the standards committee!
    For 8yrs, PV and SHW have been my living and my customers delight. I personally won’t tolerate this insanity.
    I’m not mad I’m bloody ropeable!

  12. Goldie444 Avatar
    Goldie444

    If this is a regulation, can it be disallowed in the Senate.

  13. Miles Harding Avatar
    Miles Harding

    I can’t think of a single word, apart from ‘Morons’, but a number of two word descriptions come to mind:
    a) Cretin Bureaucrats
    b) Underhanded Liberals
    c) Covert Agendas

    Magnetic declination chart?? Why would anybody use that to describe the latitude of the installation? What’s wrong with “true north” in the document?
    This really points to dopes with pens.

    As for the proscriptive ‘shall’ nonsense, this also points to twits that don’t know the difference. Or, is this an underhanded Liberal plot to take out one of their precious coal‘s competitors? Either way, it reflects very poorly of the either the competence and/or moral fibre of those who drafted this.

  14. Mike Dill Avatar
    Mike Dill

    I have been looking at a compressed gas to water heat exchanger between my AC unit compressor and the cooling coils. Has anyone here done something like that to capture the heat?

    1. Miles Harding Avatar
      Miles Harding

      Hmm… It’s sounding a lot like a heat pump hot water system.

      I’ve also wondered about this. I think it’s a matter of complexity, scale and economics. These AC and HWS systems would have to be built to interface, which would mean water circuits and considerable plumbing/valving to deal with the seasons. Likely, this would make sense at an industrial scale, say a commercial laundry.

      At a household scale, ducting the evaporator air from the HWS into the house during summer would probably be the most effective solution, but this may need to be designed into the building and have some dampers to control air movement. Sounds to have possibilities in an already energy efficient house to provide summer cooling.

      A heat pump HWS will best be run at the warmest parts of the day, which makes it align well with PV output. Assuming its 25 degrees or warmer, the coefficient of performance (COP) will be near to 4, so the 1-odd kW electrical input translates to about 4kW of heating. It also makes PV panels are nearly as effective as a typical heat collector on a rooftop solar HWS.
      Using PV energy and a heat pump HWS would sidestep this stupid regulation.

      1. Ian Avatar
        Ian

        My gripe with solar hot water systems is the backup electrical resistance heater. Typically the family shower in the evening or reasonably early in the morning. This means that overnight the resistance heater operates to heat the tank. Come morning there is again a 2 hour wait before the sun is hot enough to start heating the water, by which time the backup resistance heater has already done the job and there is no further heating left for the solar thermal panels to provide. I tried installing a timer to restrict the operation of the resistance heater to a few hours at night but my wife got irritated by having insufficient hot water in the mid morning whilst solar was slowly doing its job.

        In short I am not entirely convinced that the solar hot water system works to save electricity. A better arrangement is to have solar preheat water and the backup electric thermal heater placed as a separate unit inline to further heat the water if required. Or, as you say, install a heat pump hot water service and use solar PV to provide the electricity, at least, during the day.

        1. solarguy Avatar
          solarguy

          Ian, it sounds to me your SHW system is incorrectly sized and or is a flat plate collector. What latitude do you live?

    2. Ian Avatar
      Ian

      A small modification redirecting the condenser circuit of the air con to a water cooler condenser using swimming pool water is a possibility. Marine condensers can be obtained as separate items. You would need some electrically operated valves and some electronics to switch from air cooled circuit to water cooled circuit unless a dedicated air con/pool heater is installed.

      The swimming pool can be used as a decent ‘ground source’ heat pump in other words.

      The problem with taking heat from the house in the form of an air conditioner and depositing it in a high temperature environment such as a heat pump hot water system is the loss of COP. Maybe combining the two functions would lead to an overall saving of electricity.

      I like the idea of using the swimming pool as large heat store/sink possibly both for space heating and cooling and for the hot water heat pump. You could always add more heat to the system with a solar pool heater, or remove heat from the system with night time running of the solar pool heater to benefit from radiation of heat to the night sky.

      Another simple idea to benefit from both solar hot water panels and heat pump technology is to have both. Just add rooftop water heater panels to a heat pump hot water system.

      These are just thoughts but the ideas could be fleshed out with some engineering calculations.

      The equipment to utilise a swimming pool as a heat source or dump is already available in the form of ground source heating or air conditioning, also the marine industry uses the sea as a heat dump for cooling purposes for both air conditioning and engine cooling. That sort of equipment could be used to toggle together an integrated heat management system.

  15. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    I wonder how long before some government somewhere introduces a Solar and Water collection tax ?.

    This is where a fee for the square meterage of your roof for water capture and solar panels for hot water and electricity conversion is charged per annum. And even dams if your a farmer.

    Governments have moved well away from providing ESSENTIAL SERVICES that grow and benefit the community to becoming just another Government owned corporation working hand in hand with private corporations where every dollar is squeezed from the consumers at every opportunity.

  16. Miles Harding Avatar
    Miles Harding

    What about solar PV and heat pump hot water systems?

    This would seem to nicely sidestep these stupid regulations and is likely a more efficient and cost effective solution than the plumbing and collector.
    (about $800 worth of additional panels and a timer to curb the HWS desires)

    Seeing the standard in question expanded to include a PV and Heat pump arrangements would expose a covert agenda behind an apparently incompetently drafted document.

  17. OnionMan77 Avatar
    OnionMan77

    Reamed?
    Install a ream, install a ream, the corruptest hot water company ever seen.

  18. ben Avatar
    ben

    “The industry says it cannot think of a single reason why the new standards would insist on all new solar hot water systems facing north.”

    It would have been the LNP anti-green energy / climate change denier extremists who would be pushing this of course. Any opportunity to reduce the extent or availability of renewable energy.

  19. Giles Avatar

    Just a heads up to note that Rheem has been in contact and said that it was the only party to oppose the new standard when it was going through the system. It says the new standard is “inequitable”. https://reneweconomy.wpengine.com/2016/rheem-says-strongly-opposes-inequitable-changes-to-solar-hot-water-rules-10572

  20. Wombat Avatar
    Wombat

    My house doesn’t have a North-facing roof. My evacuated tube system is mounted on a frame, so it’s oriented North and also elevated to about 45 degrees, increasing its winter efficiency. My system produces about 98% of household hot water – across the year. That’s what you can achieve with proper orientation.

    To be honest, this ruling has to be balanced against the risk associated with installing systems in unsuitable orientations – which results in very poor efficiency and a bad reputation for solar hot water.

    1. solarguy Avatar
      solarguy

      I’ve been selling ET systems for 8 yrs and your installation is ideal and clearly a testament to the efficiency of the technology. However, installation due East or West only results in a 15-20% loss in performance in winter and can optimized with a little bigger collector area.

  21. Ian Avatar
    Ian

    You’d think a silly regulation like this could be easily quashed. Firstly find out who originated it and their reasons why. Then threaten to take that person’s decision public showing how foolish it is , and exposing any underhand dealings. We don’t need to be so helpless in the face of draconian measures. In fact this sort of heavihandedness is just the thing to flex the renewables agenda muscles.

    If this is another ruse to support the fossil fuel electricity generators then the time has come that we insist that they sequester their CO2 emissions. They have had ample time and government funds to develop this technology now they must capture their carbon and store it or shut down.

  22. Peter Grant Avatar
    Peter Grant

    And Australia has no fuel efficiency standard for passenger vehicles…

    Variability with respect to pricing and thermal efficiency is celebrated in other parts of the energy system (i.e. open cycle vs combined cycle gas, peak vs off peak electricity, petrol vs diesel cars), so why is a mandated thermal efficiency standard even considered for the one technology where the fuel cost is free!!

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